I have a vegan recipe inspired by a crab cake recipe - that uses tempeh. Within the recipe (you know how it goes) there is a spice mix that calls for ground bay leaves, I can't for the life of me figure out how to achieve this (or where to buy some!) - I have tried mortar and pestle, and a coffee grinder that I use for spices - which spits the dummy coz I cant get the bay in quick enough - any ideas?

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

We've got a stick blender thingy with a little food processor attachment. This pulverizes bay leaves pretty well - I use them in my home-made bacon cure and the bay leaves disappear completely into the salt. I guess it's possible that having all that salt in there helps them grind up nicely too though...

Can you process them with some other spices?

-- Karl

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What Karl & Fiona have been cooking up!
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Lynley, are you trying to grind fresh bay leaves or dried? I would think that maybe you should be using fresh leaves.

I use ground dried bay leaf's in a couple of spice mixes and in my wholegrain mustard. I scrunch them up in my hands it is not that fine and then put them in my spice grinder. They end up life coarse grain ground coffee.

That makes more sense. Ignore my suggestion Lynley. If it was fresh leaves, then they would be referred to as minced and not ground...... although, we do refer to ground beef as well as minced beef? Sorry - I haven't a clue!!!

I have Bay Leaf powder 25 grams - made by Peter Watson and imported by Vinotica. PW also makes Amchor 40 grams.
I bought mine from the Silverdale Butchery.

PS. Both cost $3.00 per tin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2009 07:24AM by Kerry.

In case you're interested, here is a vegan tempeh based crab cake recipe that doesn't include a pre-mixed seasoning: [www.theppk.com]

Thanks everyone (I love the 'Foodlovers Effect' - you need the answer to a culinary question, you post it - then, when you wake up, there several sensible suggestions just waiting for you).

I might try grinding the smushed up leaves with other spices and some salt - the coffee grinder that I use prefers things gravity fed - there is no room for forcing anything down the chute it it don't wanna go.

Quinoa - the recipe you refer to is the one I was thinking of (out of a great book called Vegan Brunch) - somehow in my recipe book addled mind I had it confused with another recipe which was "Old Bay Tofu "Fish" Cakes"

SO (phew)

Now, I found the tempeh (at Countdown in Greenlane), I have some dry bay leaves, and a recipe for Old Bay Seasoning mix - which includes enough spices to hopefully get the bay down the blimmin' chute -

OR - I'm off to the Silverdale butchery - ironically - wish me luck!

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

Phone the Silverdale Butchery (The Butcher's Block) first if you do Lynley. They often have super stuff there but when I want to get some more it's often no longer available. They used to stock a super ras el hanout made by Greencuisine but that's gone and no response from Greencuisine when I emailed them. They do have some interesting salts too...at the time of writing this at least.

Lynley, would love to hear how the tempeh crab cakes turn out. I have tried tempeh occasionally but have never made anything very interesting with it.
I have read it is better steamed first for a better texture so I maybe need to try this method. My family were never fond of tempeh but as it has been around so long I am thinking that was because of the way I prepared it. Have you used it before and what were the results like?

Tinks - I have used tempeh alot - my 11 year old prefers it to tofu, and by all accounts fermented soy products are tres healthy. One of my favourite recipes is a Kentucky Bourbon type concoction - I can dig out the recipe if you like, and it also lends itself well to faux bacon and/or jerky recipes with the addition of smoky bbq sauces, marination and fierce grilling. You used to be able to get tempeh alongside the tofu in Foodtown, but I think consumer uptake was a little slow and it has since disappeared - Huckleberries always have it, and as I said Countdown Greenlane. Let me know if you need some recipes....

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

Tinks, it is very common here in Indonesia and is sold from food carts on the street. It is usually sliced, fried and served with sambal (spicy chilli sauce) but you could use whatever sauce takes your fancy. I love it

I have made faux bacon from tofu many times but havent tried a tempeh version.
Is it made with soy sauce, smoke flavour etc the same way as the tofu version.
Lynette, in Indonesia do they just slice it and fry it with no flavouring or do they marinate it. Sounds tasty and quick and easy.
Lynley some recipes would be great as I am obviously missing out on something here!

Here's one - I am about to use the Chesapeake Fish Cake recipe soon - will let you all know how I get on!

These recipes are from www.veganchef.com - I have cleared useage of these recipes with the author who is very keen to share:


Baked BBQ Tempeh

2 cups onion, cut in half moons
2 cups green pepper, destemmed, deseeded, cut into quarters lengthwise, and sliced horizontally
2 cups red pepper, destemmed, deseeded, cut into quarters lengthwise, and sliced horizontally
3 - 8 oz. pkgs. multigrain tempeh, cut into 1-inch cubes
2 T. olive oil
2 T. tamari
1 recipe Kentucky Blues BBQ Sauce

Lightly oil (or spray with oil) a large baking dish (9x13-inch or larger). Place the sliced onions and peppers in the prepared pan. Bake at 375 degrees for 20 minutes to slightly roast the vegetables. Remove the pan from the oven, transfer the vegetables to a plate, and set aside. Place the tempeh in the same baking pan. In a small bowl, whisk together the olive oil and tamari. Pour the tamari mixture over the tempeh. Bake the tempeh at 375 degrees for 10 minutes. Remove the pan from the oven, stir the tempeh, and return the pan to the oven. Bake the tempeh an additional 5-10 minutes, or until the tempeh is lightly browned and the liquid is absorbed. Remove the pan from the oven. Add the reserved vegetables along with Kentucky Blues BBQ Sauce, and toss gently to combine. Return the pan to the oven, bake an additional 15-20 minutes, or until the sauce is bubbly. Serve as a main dish or side dish, as a sauce for grains or pasta, or as a sandwich filling.


Kentucky Blues BBQ Sauce

1/2 cup tomato paste
1/2 cup cider vinegar
1/3 cup maple syrup
1/4 cup bourbon
1/4 cup tamari
1 T. olive oil
1 T. garlic, minced
1 T. ginger, minced
1 T. dry mustard
1/4 t. pepper
1/4 t. cayenne pepper

Combine all ingredients in a food processor or blender and puree until smooth. Place in a sealed jar and keep refrigerated for up to 2 weeks.
Yield: 2 Cups



Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

Lynley, that sounds delicious. Have you tried it? I am keen to give it a go but need to convince my anti-vegetarian husband and son that they will like it also.

Tinks, when I buy a couple of slices for lunch, they cook it in front of me and it is just plain tempeh with no marinade that they fry up. A couple of times I have had it with a seasoning powder sprinkled on top - a sort of flavoured salt that is very tasty, but otherwise just a good chilli or garlic sauce is all it needs.

Yes I have! - it's rib sticking good (without the guilt!) I had to buy a bottle of bourbon especially for this recipe and 2 years later - it's nearly empty (and I'm not entirely sure if I have made this recipe enough times to let the two teens in the house off the hook!). The tempeh cakes are cooling in the fridge as we speak - before I roll them in panko and panfry - I have to say - they are looking pretty good - but after flavour the true test of a patty/fritter for me, is if they remain whole in the pan!

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

Great. I will put it on next weeks menu. The bourbon won't be a problem, but I will have to add tempeh to the shopping list.

- just an endnote - the tempeh "crab" cakes were awesome!

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

And how did you deal with grinding the bay leaves?

Thanks for the tempeh ideas - cant wait to try them out.

ahh yes, grinding my old friends the bay leaves - not the most pleasant of ways to while away a WHOLE AFTERNOON!

1. Put bay leaves into mortar and pestle with rest of ingredients - grind
2. Bay leaves are the only thing left standing - broken into maybe 2-3 pieces each!!
3. Put everything into the small bowl attachment of magimix (why did I not think of this before?)
4. Although smaller, it still had largish bits of bay leaf capable of getting stuck in throat - murphy lurks around every corner
5. Put everything through the original spice grinder - is good enough - at least if anyone starts choking - I will know why



Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

I admire your perseverance. I don't think I would have gone to such lengths!

I think I would have used some fresh bay leaves and infused them in that bourbon you had to buy (for another recipe???) and used that instead. It may not have tasted the same, but it would have tasted nice!!!

Lynley, we had the Baked BBQ Tempeh for dinner last night with steamed rice and some additional veges stirred in at the end (steamed spinach and roasted courgettes). I loved it. Unfortunately, DH's comments were "it's okay but you know I don't go for this sort of food." DS's comments were "don't like it mum" but when told he had to eat something and at least eat the veges, he promptly replied "how about I eat the tempeh, and not the vegetables" and he promptly ate all the tempeh and left the vegetables, so he can't have disliked it too much.

Next week we'll have the crab cakes....

Baby steps Lynette - I see that as a major victory woohoo! Given the choice of anything, my family wouldn't select tempeh either, but if Daisy has to choose a vegetarian meal, she will choose tempeh over tofu or veges. I think its important given the state of the planet, and our bodies, that we choose to eat vegetarian more often than ever before. Yay for a mum that cares enough to give it a go!

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell

I think they sometimes cringe when asking what's for dinner tonight but I insist on having at least one vegetarian meal a week.

You're right - baby steps is the way to go. Plus some deceit doesn't go amiss. Ian insists he doesn't like polenta but when I served white polenta the other night and told him it was savoury ground rice he loved it! Ha ha ha!

Lynley, I am reporting back on the tempeh crab cakes which we had last night.

Both my husband and son cringed when I asked the cook to make them for dinner. I didn't want to force them to eat it, so when I got home from the office and my son asked "Do we HAVE to have tempeh for dinner tonight?" I told him that I would have them for my lunches and we could have something else. He and my husband took the dog for a walk and when they got back the croquettes were cooling on the kitchen bench and as the two of them were starving, they had a little taste, and another, and another. They would have had at least half a dozen each leaving only four for my lunch today!

You're right - the baby steps are working.

Excellent! - they are really delectable aren't they - no deprivation in sight!

Four legs good, two legs bad. George Orwell