After our renovation, the new part of the house is lovely, dry and warm, however its just highlighted that the old part of the house is wet, damp, cold and miserable.

The old part is where the bedrooms are, some walls are insulated, however the windows are paper thin glass and every morning there are pools of water on the sills, and mould is starting to rear its ugly head in places.

I'm just wondering what would be the best solution, and what others have done to make their home warm and dry

New double glazed windows?
HRV system?
Insulation?
Heat Pumps?

Our house is a 1920's bungalow Ingrid, so you can imagine the practically non existent insulation. What we have done is put underfloor insulation in, there were no drapes in the lounge, so thermal backed drapes are there, and we have installed 2 heat pumps in the house (3 bedroom). The windows are dry most mornings, except there may be the occasional little bit of water on the window itself at the very bottom, but not enough to be a problem, and the window sills are always dry with no water. I did investigate double glazing for the windows, and we may get to go down that road financially one day, but not for now. However with the above measures in place, the house is always toasty warm over winter and dry - and I keep the heat pumps going 24/7 unless we are away overnight, then they are switched off.

Irene: Whats your power bill like with heat pumps going 24/7?
Underfloor insulation: Do you mean expol?

It is Expol under the floor... I just couldn't remember the name, when I posted, as it's been in for 13 years now

Our power bill.... I have a Direct Debit of $180 per month (automatically adjusted on an annual basis by Genesis), and with the lines credit we receive annually, each month our power bill is covered. Just looking at our last bill to 31 May and that was $220. This month of course will be higher.

I absolutely refuse to be cold, and would rather pay for the power and have a warm comfortable home. And I keep getting a niggly sore throat and sniffles, but touch wood, I am rarely sick with coughs and colds. And of course I work from home, so I refuse to sit here in Waikato frosts/fogs and shiver I am on a power plan which is cut into 3 times, peak (doesn't apply in weekends), shoulder and off peak (from 10pm)... I make sure if I have to use the dryer I do it after 10pm, likewise the dishwasher I run after 10pm. No electric blanket here - because we have a smaller and older house, our bedroom is actually off the lounge - and with the lounge heat pump also heating our bedroom - no electric blanket is required.

All the options are pretty expensive. If I recall what I read when I looked into this.. if your house is properly insulated (including windows) then you shouldn't need an HRV system. However, getting to the point of properly insulated can be tricky. Ceiling and underfloor insulation are most important and they're not usually prohibitively expensive unless you have a massive house, then comes double glazing - but that's a pretty huge cost to retrofit.

We live in a 1996 Keith Hay house and the ceiling is well insulated but the floor is not. We have a woodburner that cranks out a lot of heat and keeps the house pretty darn warm, but still we have issues with condensation on the windows and aluminium joinery. Because of the position of the house, we get a lot of early morning sun so it the condensation dries up pretty quick, but I'd still prefer it wasn't there at all. This summer we'll put in some expol under the house but I don't think it'll make a huge difference to the windows.

Redoing the windows isn't on the cards for us any time soon, so we may well look into a heat exchange system of some sort. It is worth getting different quotes from different styles though as I think it depends on what type of roof and ceiling space you have as to what system will work better for your house.

A friend of mine had a heat exchange (not sure which brand) put in about 3 years ago and no longer has condensation problems in their second level. For that reason alone she is very happy with it.

Cold is one thing, dampness is another; the two together can be very miserable. It is easier and faster to heat a dry room. Apologies if I didn't read a post correctly but I didn't see any mention of a dehumidifier. We have one that can be set to certain levels and if anyone is using an unflued gas heater and/or is drying clothing on one of the stand alone airers, I would strongly recommend it.
At one stage we lived in the Waikato area and after a good frost I was constantly mopping up condensation. The difference when we had specific windows (we had high and some sloping ceilings) double glazed and a DVS installed was amazing.
I agree that some of the solutions can be costly and it really niggles me that electricity (and other energy) seems to be fair game when it comes to taxing for extra revenue.
p.s. Irene, I still wouldn't want to be without my electric blanket.

The house still needs to be ventilated regardless of the solution. Double glazing is prob the best but is costly BUT, if you are going to consider big thick custom made curtains etc compare the cost of the two as curtains can be costly. Where you can keep the window even slightly ajar and that reduce the moisture combined with a dehumidifier should be a good short term solution.

there was an article a few days ago regarding homes that were well insulated but without ventilation and this was causing further dampness/mould so keep this in mind.

Mum does the old school method of running around the house in the morning wiping them down with a towel and telling me to put on woollen undergarments at night when I complain of being cold!
My clothes suffer too - with spots of mould. Im currently renting an old villa thats really cold in winter.
My power bill is ridiculous - 2 bottles of gas at $35 a pop per month plus the power thats possibly going to be near $300 this month! Thats only me and 2 kids!!!!
We do like baths though and have a dishwasher.

Vanessa

Vanessa, are you using an unflued gas heater? This alone will cause a great deal of condensation. They should be absolutely your last choice for heating. Even an oil-filled fin heater is a better option, though they really only give background heat.

Nobody has mentioned insulation in the exterior wall cavities. All new homes must have this, as they do double glazing on windows. If your walls are not insulated, you can get them retro-filled with a foam insulator that is pumped into the cavities by small holes that are drilled around the house and then plugged up again once the cavities have been filled with the foam. I would suggest it would be to your great advantage to get this done. Has it been made law yet that landlords must insulate their rental houses, or have they got a ridiculous number of years before they have to comply?

Sometimes it seems to me that the standard advice of ventilating your home by opening a window to prevent moisture and mould, works at cross purposes. What this does in winter is allow the entry of moisture-laden air into your home.

In order to prevent mould, moisture needs to be removed from the home. If this interior moisture is successfully removed then mould shouldn’t grow.

However, moisture is continually reintroduced into the home’s interior by humans (breathing, sweating, etc), pets, and human activities such as cooking and water usage (showers, hot water steam, mopping floors, etc). This moisture needs to be removed and can be by the use of bathroom fans ducted to the outside, kitchen rangehoods, etc, and the heating of the home.

However, as mentioned earlier, another source of continually reintroduced moisture into the home’s interior is via the standard advice of opening windows. In winter, this lets new, moisture-laden air into your home and that air, being from outside, is often laden with all sorts of particles, including mould spores.

I don’t open my windows during winter. I struggle to find the sense in it. You’re replacing your hard-earned warm, heated, often drier in comparison interior air with moisture-laden, particle-laden exterior air. Some would argue that we need this exterior air for “fresh” interior air, to replace the “stale” interior air. However, our homes are not air tight, not even modern ones. Air gets through the tiniest gaps in doors – there are very few airtight doors in houses in NZ, and air is also moving into the house via rangehoods, ducted fans, older-style downlights, chimneys, the passage of pets and humans through doors, etc.


An example of the lack of sense:
[www.renova.ie]
“Blocking up vents and not opening windows means that moist air cannot escape which causes condensation to form and ultimately mould to grow.”

“Good ventilation requires maintaining a constant flow of air within a house – fresh, clean air in, stale and moisture-laden air out. Good ventilation will remove the humid air before it has a chance to condense on cold surfaces which as we know, creates condensation and mould growth. If left untreated, damp can lead to a host of problems such as corrosion of internal finishes and even health problems, especially in vulnerable young children, elderly people and people with respiratory problems like asthma. Fresh air should constantly be flowing into our homes. Stale, moisture-laden air which is also full of unwanted gases such as C02 and Carbon monoxide and germs, should be flowing out.”

The first sentence says “not opening windows means that moist air cannot escape…”. I’ll counteract that with two points:
1. Ideally you should have some form of home heating and moist air removal that ensures the air inside your house is not moist.
2. If you open a window in winter in NZ you’ll be letting lots of moist air INTO your house. For instance, right now, I’m sitting in my house surrounded by fog outside (but it’s not foggy inside my house).

The second paragraph I’ll counteract as follows:

“fresh, clean air in”. There’s no such thing as fresh, clean air. Outside air is full of vehicle fumes, particles from people’s chimney smoke, mould and fungus spores, germs, viruses, bacteria, dirt, fur…anything and everything…

“stale and moisture-laden air out”. I disagree with “stale” due to my comments above about no such thing as air-tight homes in NZ. And if you’ve been using some form of heating and moisture control in your home then you shouldn’t have “moisture-laden” air to let out and, even if you do, I can guarantee the air you let INTO your home will be just as moisture-laden, if not far worse. Currently, if I opened a window here, I’d be essentially letting a CLOUD into my home and we all know what clouds are composed of.

“moisture-laden air which is also full of unwanted gases such as C02 and carbon monoxide and germs, should be flowing out”. Well, as I mentioned before, ideally you should be heating and controlling your home so you don’t have moisture-laden air inside your home and I believe you’ll get just as much and probably far more carbon monoxide and germs by letting outside air into your home via an open window.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2016 02:49AM by J1.

How to stop your air from being moisture laden is the biggest problem. We all breath, producing moisture.
I have a range hood and a heat pump but the range hood has very limited use - only when food is cooking directly below, but as the range hood is a few centimetres narrower than the stove top below, much moisture escapes round the sides. Very poor design. Then what of the vegetables I want to drain the water from? Into the sink, of course, but there's no range hood over the sink. All the steam is released directly into the kitchen, billowing into the open plan areas too, and settling in the soft furnishings: curtains, sofas and carpet.

How many of us can afford a DVS or HRV system? Not only the original purchase but the ongoing expense. Not viable for renters, either!! Sorry Kiwis, our homes will be moisture laden and until power prices are reduced enough so that all can use heating and ventilation machinery as necessary. Sorry, have to duck now, the pigs are flying overhead!

Ingrid we have the same problem in our old house and I am constantly mopping the windows and bottom of window sills. When the blackness of mould starts creeping in in the bottom corners of windows I give a wee squirt of 'mould off' and that kills the mould spores for a certain amount of time.

We are 'accidental' landlords because houses on our farm are no longer used for employees. What really gets up my nose is when some tenants dry all their washing inside on clothes horses and think the moisture simply vanishes out through the four walls and closed doors and windows while the clothesline provided stands unused. (gripe, gripe )!
Regards,
Dawn.

People drying their clothes inside is such a tricky one, isn't it Dawn. I mean you (general you, not you personally) can't moan too hard when people can't necessarily afford the electricity to run a dryer, but the negative effects of drying clothes inside is huge - both to the house and the occupants. I've never dried anything on racks other than woollens in the garage because I don't want the extra moisture in the house, but I'm also grateful we've always been able to afford to use the dryer through winter. If your tenants continue the practice in the dryer months, that would really cheese me off.

I think when people dry their clothes inside, etc, it's simply that they lack understanding of how the whole moisture in air thing works. As Dawn says, they might be thinking it simply vanishes. They don't make the connection between the moisture their washing is releasing into the air as it dries (they can't see it so it doesn't exist) being the same moisture that then condenses on their windows overnight as the air cools and can no longer hold the moisture. I guess it's a case of education and then behavioural change follows once there is true comprehension and understanding.

Yes I agree it is a tricky one Jenna, and as J1 says it's a matter of educating people, but in some cases I think people find it a matter of convenience to dry clothes around the lovely wood box burners which send out so much heat and they don't really care too much beyond that. In the summer placing washing on a clothes horse where the sun is streaming through a window or door is another example. However, one cannot prevent tenants from quiet enjoyment of the premises........

Over my gripe now.........
Regards,
Dawn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2016 11:17PM by Dawn.

I have a villa which despite insulation is bitterly cold in the winter and is so damp we have dehumidifiers running in the bedrooms 24/7 all year round. It's also pretty much impossible to heat without spending a fortune on power - people I've had round to quote have thrown up their hands due to very high ceilings and open plan. This year I decided I had to do something, so I put in an HRV system (not with them but with another company called Sayr). I was very hesitant to do this as it was around $3,500 and some of the stuff I'd read about them said they didn't work, but there were also a lot of testimonials from people saying they'd had great results, so I took the plunge. I'm really happy I did - on sunny days in particular it raises the temperature inside by several degrees and the effect it's had on the damp has been amazing. We left our dehumidifiers sitting in the bedrooms as we couldn't quite believe we wouldn't be needing them again, but we've stored them in the garage now and the house is so dry (which makes it feel a lot warmer too). Not a drop of condensation on the windows in the morning. I believe they work best with a house like mine with a corrugated iron roof and a big roofspace which gets pretty hot during the day - I wouldn't put one into a house with a tile roof.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 03:25PM by CarolynC.

RE: Drying clothes inside
I always have a full clothes horse drying beside the bi-folds where they get the most sun - this is the newer part of my home, fully insulated and double glazing.

Is this not good practice?

I thought I was saving on drying costs?

No its not good practice. If you have a sheltered spot, put the clothes horse outside.

Plates is absolutely right. All that moisture is moving into your walls, curtains, soft furnishings etc. You should be aiming to keep as much moisture out of your home as possible... which is why range hoods, bathroom extractor fans and external venting for your dryer are also very important.

I would suggest few simple conventional methods
open your windows to air out your house. Exhaust fan in kitchen, bathroom and laundry room. Open your drapes, blinds which circulates air against windows.

Hi all,

We are very blessed to be living in a warm dry home, but this is only because it has double glazing and a HRV system. Now I would get an HRV system or even DVS piut in my home. We have found the benefits really good. We have little to no condensation on the windows and it keeps our house warmer and dry.

I too dry my clothes on an air drier, I do understand about the moisture, but we do keep it by a french door and we also have have the HRV that removes said moisture. We havent had any issues thus far and we have been here 5.5 years.


Zeetra

We had a very powerful flued gas heater in a previous home. That heater had a container incorporated for the purpose of adding water to it to keep the air comfortable and not dry it out. It worked really well. We had three sets of wooden joinery French doors in our living room and the room was never air tight. That definitely helped avoiding condensation.

This gives an insight into dampness and remedies in homes. [webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Regards,
Dawn.