I have just declared our bedroom a Covid Free News Zone, I think he will need some reminding on a regular basis before this happens.
We are all double vaccinated and I just do not want a constant reminder of statistics, both locally and globally and all the other gloomy things that are associated with this.
How are the rest of you feeling and is anyone else feeling a little overwhelmed?
I think being in Auckland where we are still pretty restricted is adding to this.
I am also restricting what I read on Facebook and actually unfriended a staunchly political friend who takes every opportunity to take pot shots at any of the opposition. I am not strongly political (although I would really like just once to know the facts as to whether we did contribute to our current situation with delayed vaccination start, but that is opening a huge can of worms), and people who have to shout their views continuously are quite exhausting.
Rant over, feel free to have your say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2021 11:20PM by helen.

helen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
> How are the rest of you feeling and is anyone else
> feeling a little overwhelmed?
> I think being in Auckland where we are still
> pretty restricted is adding to this.
> I am also restricting what I read on Facebook and
> actually unfriended a staunchly political friend
> who takes every opportunity to take pot shots at
> any of the opposition.

We discuss the situation often at home, and we have been closely following what is happening in Victoria, NSW and London as we have close family and friends there. I watch the 1pm and 4pm briefings every time as I do not trust the news media to report accurately and I want the information direct, especially from the health professionals. I'm not feeling overwhelmed exactly, I am trying to be stoic and accept the idea that the world will never return to its previous state and we are lucky to have lived most of our lives in pre-pandemic freedom. It is the younger generations I am sad for.

We are both double vaccinated and so is our daughter in Melbourne, but some family members are still hesitant and some are rabidly anti-vax. We have been cut off by the anti-vaxxers but we are still in conversation with the vax-hesitants; it is extremely difficult to navigate a conversation with them as they don't want to discuss the issue.

On Facebook I have been unfriended by a few extremist conspiracy theorists. One episode was actually quite comical. An English friend was promoting the weird lie that the NZ government had prohibited vegetable gardening so I posted on his time line a few recent photos of our very abundant vege gardens, including one of me holding a big bunch of veges. His response was to block and unfriend me.

Is there anyone on this forum who is anti-vax or vax-hesitant and is willing to share their reasons?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 09:06AM by TPANDAV.

It always reminds me of the saying 'I read it on the internet, so it must be true' The attached is a cartoon (and ironically sourced on the internet) but it really sums up the current situation so aptly I feel

I do appreciate people with severe autoimmune diseases etc.. hesitating on the vaccine as it potentially could impact their health. I guess they have to weigh up the likely impact of the vaccine vs the impact of Covid.

This is becoming very divisive and terrible for families. On a fb group that I belong to a mother of 6 week old twins and a toddler, has a MIL who works in healthcare and isn't having the vaccine. She wants to move in to help with the children and the parents are going to say no, due to her lack of vaccine and potential exposure. This is likely to fracture family relationships but they do want to prioritise their children's health.

I also read a post the other day on a friends from a friend of hers who is refusing the vaccine and one of her main arguments was that most of the people in hospital in Israel are vaccinated. Yes that is true, and true because most of the people in Israel are vaccinated so hospital inpatients are vaccinated and the bar has been lowered in terms of admission of Covid related illnesses that can be prioritised.

Love that pic Irene. It is extraordinary when people think that social media research provides information that medical specialists have missed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 02:20AM by helen.

Thanks Irene - love it!

A covid news free zone sounds like a splendid idea, you could extend it to be a news free zone.
Here in Te Wai Pounamu most of the people we know are very appreciative of Auckland's efforts to contain the virus contrary to news media reporting that we are all agitating for a return to level one. In our area mask wearing and social distancing are very common even in situations where they are not strictly required.
Yes TPANDAV I think it is sadness for a way of life that seems to be gone.

Almost everyone I speak with says they have had enough of being bombarded with information and misinformation. I am not blind or deaf to what is happening. We were double vaccinated much earlier in the year. I am grateful for that.

We had a plumber in this morning and the first thing he asked was...have you been vaccinated. Wise precaution
.
We may never return to what we once had but who can be sure?

Google ....Imagine if you were born in 1900

ps. Thank you to Aucklanders who have taken the brunt.

Loved reading this topic. Main reason given by vaccine hesitant to me has been "we don't know long term effects", Don't know what is in the vaccine" from what I thought were reasonably intelligent people. At about 6years old I lined up at primary school and had the polio vaccine, had smallpox, tetanus, and various other vaccines to allow international travel, and I think there may have been small amounts of live virus in some of those vaccines - there is no live virus in the covid19 vaccine. I have an autoimmune disease but despite all the above vaccines am still standing at 70yrs. I am grateful my country has allowed me to be vaccinated for free. Auckland, which is the engine room of our country, has borne the brunt of this cruel virus, a big shout out to Auckland Foodlovers for doing the hard yards.

I'm not anti-vaccination - my husband, myself and our children are all fully vaccinated for everything else except we don't do flu vaccines. We are anti the covid vaccination.

This is not something I speak about with anyone other than my family because a) any medical decision is a personal choice that everyone should be making for themselves free from coercion and b) frankly my life is already small and being shunned from society is about to be more than I can bear.

I will share my reasoning if you all actually want to know it. I doubt anyone will agree with me, but that's ok.

But please, I ask you to respect that even though you may not agree with me or my reasons, I'm not uneducated or an idiot. I don't do my research on TikTok.

-deleted-



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 11:19AM by Jenna.

Since I was asked for this information, I would ask that you do me the respect of reading it all before making comment. I've tried to be as brief as possible, but as I'm sure you can understand, this is a very complex issue that does not lend itself to brevity. Also, please do not comment just to pick my points apart. If you disagree, that's fine, I'm not out to change anyone's mind.

I suppose many if not most of you will judge me for my opinions, so be it. I have enjoyed all of your company here at FL for the past 13 years, but in the end I don't know any of you outside of this forum, so while that will sting, it won't crush me like the real world is currently trying to do.

The crux of the matter is this:

1) This vaccine does not prevent you from getting C19, transmitting C19 or dying from C19 - this is not conspiracy theory, it is widely published fact, even by the CDC. It may afford a degree of personal protection from severe illness.
2) The mRNA technology may have been being researched for a few years but this is the first time it has been used and there has been no long term testing and this is a big deal as other routine vaccines have undergone years of trials (Hi AnnieH!).
3) Depending on your age and presence or absence of underlying conditions, C19 has between a 99.999% and 98.5% survival rate, or similar. The rate of hospitalization is overall only about 5%. I personally feel the risks of an experimental vaccine with no long term studies outweigh the risks of a healthy 45 year old getting covid, let alone a younger person or even a child.
4) There are significant side effects from the vaccines that are being under reported here and all over the world. Physicians are reluctant to acknowledge the problems and very often don't bother filling out adverse event reports because the forms are complicated, take a lot of time to fill out and they're overworked to begin with. Not to mention most medical associations have warned Drs against speaking of differing opinions or doing/saying anything that could affect the vaccine rollout. This is not conspiracy theory.
5) Any medical decision is personal choice and should be free from coercion as per the NZ Bill of Rights, which this current roll out is not.

For example, the chickenpox vaccine was first created in Japan in the 1970’s, but wasn’t licensed for use in the US until 1995. Hepatitis B - developed 1969, licensed 1981. There is a reason for the huge delays, thoroughly testing safety long term.

The Dr who spent many years developing mRNA vaccine technology, Dr Robert Malone, is very outspoken against these vaccines except in the very vulnerable.

--- That’s the short-ish answer as to why. For further detail as to why I have those beliefs and some other thoughts, keep reading.

I have always been a proud New Zealander, and currently I am in tears every day at the things that are being said about those of us, about 10-20% of the population, who have some very deep concerns or who are simply making a personal medical decision that aligns with our closely held beliefs.

‘They should be herded into one area and be left to fend for themselves’. ‘They shouldn’t have access to healthcare if they do get C19’. ‘Don’t let them in the supermarkets’. ‘Selfish #$*&$#’. Plus a lot worse that I won’t bother giving further airtime.

Vaccination shouldn’t be the issue given you can still catch and transmit - covid infection is the issue. If you can provide a test (rapid or PCR) that shows you’re not currently harbouring covid, then why on earth shouldn’t you be allowed to go about your life?

Given that vaccinated people can carry covid asymptomatically and often have the same viral load as the vaccinated, it would make infinitely more sense for testing to be being pushed. All these festivals and such that are going to require proof of vax but not a negative test? What if 300 of the 10,000 attendees have covid? Vaccinated or not that’s going to be a problem. I can’t remember the country, but there is one in the UK I think that provides everyone with a number of rapid antigen tests per week (or you can pop down to the pharmacy and have it done for a fee) and you need to show one when you enter a nightclub or event.

Now, covid numbers in hospitals overseas. Yes, the higher proportion of the population that is vaccinated means there is going to be a higher number of those people getting covid. But when proportion of ‘breakthrough cases’ is very high, like in Iceland over the last several weeks, it does point out problems with the idea that high vaccination rates will create herd immunity.

“While data shows vaccination is reducing the rate of serious illness due to COVID-19 in Iceland, the country’s Chief Epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason says it has not led to the herd immunity that experts hoped for. In the past two to three weeks, the Delta variant has outstripped all others in Iceland and it has become clear that vaccinated people can easily contract it as well as spread it to others, Þórólfur stated in a briefing this morning.”

[legalinsurrection.com]

There are early treatments that very much help. Yes, I’m going to say it, Ivermectin. And it isn’t just horse wormer it’s been used safely in people for a long time and it isn’t just an anti-parasitic. There is a lot of data that shows Ivermectin has a huge effect as both prophylaxis and treatment. A case study being Uttar Pradesh in India. They issued the population with packs of VitC/VitD/Panadol/Ivermectin. And watched the covid rates fall dramatically.

[www.msn.com]

Same with Slovakia and several other countries. The pharmaceutical industry and its influence has a lot to answer for here.

[newsrescue.com]

There is a NIH study if anyone wants it that shows a strong relationship between low VitD levels and severe disease. Good idea to start boosting your VitD levels now since we’re just coming out of winter. VitC and Zinc in combination with VitD help your immune system.

A friend of my 18yo, also 18, has just been let go from his electrical apprenticeship over a year in because he didn’t want to get vaccinated. He’s healthy as a horse and did not want to run into risks of peri/myocarditis that is showing up as a more common than thought side effect amongst 12-20 year old boys. He’s devastated. They informed his employer of the MBIE statements showing the business had to do a full health and safety review before any employment action was taken. Employer said he didn't care, he didn't want the unvaccinated on his staff. Hello 1940's Germany. His mother is a hospital nurse and doesn’t want him or his siblings to get it for the same reasons as me. The only reason she did is because, like so many others, she needs her job to help feed her family and pay their mortgage.

Vaccine passports are abhorrent and pointless. They have been largely scrapped in other countries because of the understandable social backlash, yet our Govt somehow said they've been used with good effectiveness overseas. Really?

I have taken the following from a September 27, 2021 decision from the Australian Fair Work Commission. The case was about a person who worked in an aged care facility being fired for refusing a flu vaccine. The FWC upheld the termination, but used the opportunity to make comment about the Covid vaccine since it is very relevant right now. So, there are not my words, but largely sums up my opinion in clear language and very usefully, provides references (on the webpage, not my cut/paste) and links to relevant information. The points I've included are not just limited to comments about the appropriate expectations and use of the vaccine, but also around the issue of informed consent and government and employer mandates. For brevity (ship sailed) I've tried to only include what are to me the most meaningful points. However, there are 84 very good points if you choose to read that part of the document.

Link to the report - the covid part starts at point #101:

[www.fwc.gov.au]

PART 2 –VACCINE REQUIREMENTS IN RELATION TO COVID

[101] The Majority Decision raises the issue of COVID vaccinations and their requirement in workplaces. It forms part of the reasoning for refusing to grant permission to appeal and accordingly provides the opportunity in this decision to deal with this important issue.

[113] Before turning to a consideration of these reasons, it is important to set the context with some information that is publicly available and should be uncontroversial:
a. Unlike many other vaccinations such as those used to stop the spread of tetanus, yellow fever and smallpox, COVID vaccinations are not designed to stop COVID. They are designed to reduce the symptoms of the virus, however a fully vaccinated person can contract and transmit COVID.
b. The science is clear in that COVID is less serious for those who are young and otherwise healthy compared to those who are elderly and/or who have co-morbidities. In other words, the risk of COVID is far greater for those who are elderly or have co-morbidities. Around 87% of those who have died with COVID in Australia are over 80 years old and had other pre-existing illnesses listed on their death certificates.
c. The World Health Organisation has stated that most people diagnosed with COVID will recover without the need for any medical treatment.
d. The vaccines are only provisionally approved for use in Australia and are accordingly still part of a clinical trial 20.
e. There are side effects to the COVID vaccines that are now known. That side effects exist is not a conspiracy theory.
f. The long-term effects of the COVID vaccines are unknown, and this is recognised by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) in Australia.
Consent is required for participation in clinical trials

[114] Consent is required for all participation in a clinical trial. Consent is necessary because people have a fundamental right to bodily integrity, that being autonomy and self-determination over their own body without unconsented physical intrusion. Voluntary consent for any medical treatment has been a fundamental part of the laws of Australia and internationally for decades.
It is legally, ethically and morally wrong to coerce a person to participate in a clinical trial.

[115] Coercion is not consent. Coercion is the practice of persuading someone to do something using force or threats. Some have suggested that there is no coercion in threatening a person with dismissal and withdrawing their ability to participate in society if that person does not have the COVID vaccine. However, nothing could be further from the truth.

[129] Freely given consent to any medical treatment, particularly in the context of a clinical trial, is not optional. Coercion is completely incompatible with consent, and denying a person the ability to work and participate in society if the person does not have a COVID vaccine will unquestionably breach this fundamental and internationally recognised human right.
Can COVID vaccinations be mandated by employers on health and safety grounds?

[130] The short answer to this question, in almost every case, is no.

[131] The fundamental starting point here is the answer to the question – what is the risk? All risk controls are (or should be) designed to address an identified risk. The risk needs to be a real risk and not a perceived risk. The real risk for employers is that a person who has COVID will spread COVID to others within the workplace.

[132] The risk of spreading COVID only arises with a person who has COVID. This should be apparent and obvious. There is no risk associated with a person who is unvaccinated and does not have COVID, notwithstanding the misleading statements by politicians that the unvaccinated are a significant threat to the vaccinated, supposedly justifying “locking out the unvaccinated from society” and denying them the ability to work.

[134] There is nothing controversial in stating that vaccines do not eliminate the risk of COVID, given that those who are vaccinated can catch and transmit COVID. By way of one example, a report issued by the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the United States on 6 August 2021 25 looked at an outbreak of COVID in Massachusetts during July 2021. Of the 469 COVID cases identified, 74% were fully vaccinated. Of this group, 79% were symptomatic. In total, 5 people required hospitalisation and of these, 4 were fully vaccinated. This is not an anomaly – the data from many countries and other parts of the United States provides a similar picture, although obtaining similar data from the United States will now be problematic given the decision by the CDC on 1 May 2021 to cease monitoring and recording breakthrough case information unless the person is hospitalised or dies. What is clear, however, is that the vaccine is not an effective control measure to deal with transmission of COVID by itself.

[139] Critically, there is another alternative to vaccines to assist employers in meeting their WHS obligations, that being testing. Given there is no doubt that those who are fully vaccinated can catch and transmit the virus, testing (whether rapid antigen or otherwise) will provide employers with a level of comfort that a worker does not have COVID and therefore will not transmit COVID to others (that being the risk that is to be managed) in the workplace.

[140] Testing is now widely used around the world as a risk control for the spread of COVID. There is absolutely no reason why it cannot be widely used in Australia.

[141] Testing is arguably a better control measure compared to vaccines in meeting health and safety obligations.

[142] Vaccines have not been broadly mandated on health and safety grounds in most countries. For example, despite what has been reported in Australia, most of the European Union (EU) and the Scandinavian countries have not actually mandated vaccinations for travel purposes. EU citizens can travel freely now if any one of three options are satisfied, that being a vaccine, a negative COVID test, or evidence of having recently recovered from COVID (in recognition of the natural immunity that comes with having recovered from having COVID). The EU have provided these options so that people who are not vaccinated will not be discriminated against when travelling across the EU. In other words, all those who are not vaccinated can get tested for COVID and travel freely 27.

[143] In a scientific brief prepared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) dated 10 May 2021 on COVID natural immunity, the WHO found that “within four weeks following infection, 90-99% of individuals infected with [COVID] virus develop detectable neutralising antibodies….”. Further, “available scientific data suggests that in most people immune responses remain robust and protective against reinfection for at least 6-8 months after infection (the longest follow up with strong scientific evidence is currently approximately 8 months)”.

[144] The science is clear that those who have recovered from COVID have at least the same level of protection from COVID as a person who has been vaccinated. There can be absolutely no legitimate basis, then, for mandating vaccination for this group of people.

I have a deep-seated aversion to needles or any medical procedure involving an injection. In fact, writing this makes me feel hot and bothered. That said, I understand the seriousness of the current situation, especially in Auckland and surrounds, and I managed my first vaccination last week.

My son who has been slow off the mark, on account of the fact that he lives in Wellington and has therefore not seen the urgency, told me today that he has had his first vaccination

Please come in Jenna. We will not judge you but as TPANDAV said, it is interesting to hear others' views and reasons for not wanting to be vaccinated..

Regards,

Barbara Anne

I entered this forum in good faith, but as Jenna has decided it is her right to use my name in point 2 - polio vaccine - if you are going to spout off at least take the time to research the time taken to put that particular vaccine to trial. This was a light hearted topic about how we are feeling and coping, and I didn't come on here to be lectured to.
Helen as the moderator please feel free to delete both my posts.

Annie - I referred to you because I was referencing earlier vaccine development, as you did. I shouldn't have mentioned you by name and for that I apologise. I did not intend to anger or upset you. I'll edit my post to remove your name.

Those of us who are choosing not to get this vaccine are being treated like morons, nut bags and second class citizens, and occasionally it hurts and I bit back. Wrong place and I'm sorry.

As for it being a light hearted post - TPANDAV specifically asked if there were any anti vax or vax hesitant members who would care to explain their position, so I stepped out of my shell and explained. Whilst crying the whole time.

I do not believe I lectured, at all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 11:13AM by Jenna.

Helen or Lorna, please delete my post. I'll send it to TPANDAV via private message.

Barbara Anne our own GP told us that he has an a version to needles and in a couple of cases he actually passed out. It can be a very real fear.
Although he said he would rather face his fear of needles than the fear of contacting covid19.

Yes it's not uncommon Marnie - in fact it has a name - trypanaphobia. I read somewhere that the fear of spiders (arachnophobia) is linked ie. affects the same people and that it true in my case as well. Like your doctor, I decided to face my fear and get vaccinated, especially being in the older age category.

If it helps anyone in the same situation, I had my vaccination in my thigh, not in my arm - the nurse at the medical centre where I went said it would make no difference to its effectiveness. For some reason it helped me cope, thighs being stronger and more muscular than more tender arms. That and lots of deep breathing and toe wriggling while looking in the opposite direction got me through.

I know this might seem trivial to some, but it is a real issue for many people, so hope my suggestions help, even just one person.

Regards,

Barbara Anne

Jenna, I believe you are able to delete your post yourself if you wish to. Click on the 'preview' button at the bottom of your post and click on 'cancel' then confirm the cancellation.

Good on you Barbara-Anne. I do not have your phobia but I do have another, and the fear is so great that I cannot even write the name of the thing I fear. I totally admire all of the phobics who are so bravely getting vaccinated for the sake of the wider community.

I do wish the media, especially TV1 News, would stop flashing up close-ups of people being vaccinated, and I think it would also be helpful if the expression "jabs" was avoided.

While I don't love needles, I can cope, but as TPANDAV has mentioned the news closeups of people being vaccinated, I have to look away and the same for nose swabs.

My biggest fear is having a nose swab taken.......yes I know it's only 10 seconds but my blood curdles just thinking about it. If I ever need to have a swab taken they might have to handcuff my hands behind my back ......I'll be pleading for a saliva test, or if I can't get that, a swab via mouth. Don't know whether there is a choice.

I no longer watch the 1 p.m. updates on TV from the Parliamentary pulput.......I have had enough of it.

Keep safe everyone!
Regards,
Dawn.
And, yes I am double vaccinated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 12:34AM by Dawn.

Interesting that you mention the word' jab' TPANDAV - I totally agree with you, in fact I was actually moved to write to the Ministry of Health, attention Dr Bloomfield last week suggesting that the word be quietly retired from the narrative - I mentioned that even the PM has been heard to say it and the media is full of it. To me, as it rhymes with nab, grab and stab, it conjures up visions of having something unpleasant done to you against your will. In my email I also mentioned the fear of needles as being a reason why many people may not want to be vaccinated. I suggested that the 'Covid 19 Announcements' that are promoting vaccination heavily at the moment should include the fact that if you are unsure or nervous then speak to your GP or local medical centre - they are there to help.

I haven't seen any evidence that my suggestions have been taken on board, nor have I had a response, but you can only try.

Regards,

Barbara Anne

"I suggested that the 'Covid 19 Announcements' that are promoting vaccination heavily at the moment should include the fact that if you are unsure or nervou then speak to your GP or local medical centre - they are there to help. "

I have definitely heard this advice repeatedly in the past week or so. Unfortunately Chris Hipkins the other day also said "Do your own research", a slip of the tongue and he meant "ask a medical practitioner", but I was surprised that he wasn't more in control of his language.

Jenna, thank you for your private message. I have replied but somehow my message doesn't appear in my Sent box so I'm not sure what happened or if you have got it.

Anyway, I mainly wanted to ask you if your views on the low transmissibility of the virus are based on up-to-date information i.e. post-Delta?

TPANDAV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately Chris Hipkins
> the other day also said "Do your own research", a
> slip of the tongue and he meant "ask a medical
> practitioner", but I was surprised that he wasn't
> more in control of his language.

Yes I agree with this re controlling his own language - particularly as he has had other "slips of the tongue" during press conferences. He is in a position of responsibility & there are a lot of vulnerable people watching & reacting to these news conferences.

I am trying not to watch any news updates of the Covid 19 response or click on links now, watching instead later on in the day - the concentrated coverage is quite intrusive in my head & I am trying to do & read & see other things.
But - my thoughts are with all of the FL in Auckland & other affected areas as this seems to just go on & on



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 03:20AM by mantilla.

I haven't moderated this although you are always able to delete your own posts if you want to.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my initial post and where we have ended up seems to be a small example of society as a whole. It is an extremely divisive subject.
I see that one of the Otago University Halls has just announced that all students coming in 2022 must be vaccinated, Air NZ are saying the same for global flights.
it is going to be challenging working a way forward with this, both in small communities and on a national and international level.

It can be hard to work through the logic of it all. I know people who are vaccinated and people who aren't, for various reasons.

Does it go something like this?

FOR WHATEVER REASON:

Chooses not to get vaccinated.
Outcomes for this choice:
a) Never gets Covid.
b) Gets Covid.

Outcomes for b) above (“Gets Covid”):
1. Gets Covid and dies.
2. Gets Covid and gets extremely sick at the time, ending up in ICU for period of time.
3. Gets Covid and gets sick at the time and ends up in hospital for period of time.
4. Gets Covid and feels unwell at the time but recovers.
5. Gets Covid and has no ill effects at the time whatsoever.
6. Gets Covid and has any of the above 1-5 but ends up with side effects in the future, some possibly transient (e.g. “Covid toe”), some possibly permanent (organ damage).
7. Gets Covid and has any of the above 1-3 and uses medical resources.
8. Gets Covid and has any of the above 1-5 and infects other people.

Chooses to get vaccinated.
Outcomes for this choice:
a) Never gets Covid.
b) Gets Covid.
c) Has some effect from the vaccine resulting in death or extreme sickness or sickness or being unwell, or getting some future effect not currently known. There are statistics relating to vaccination effects.

Outcomes for b) above (“Gets Covid”):
As per 1-8 above. However, statistics suggest outcomes 1-3 and 6-8 are much less likely if vaccinated.

A close friend of mine is highly immune compromised and had a negative response from the first vaccine that gave concerns about having the second. Their rheumatologist said that the chances of this person getting very sick from the vaccine was definitely a risk but in this instance the chances of dying from Covid were very high.
The friend went on to have the second vaccine with as yet no adverse affects.
It is a matter of weighing up risk factors although I do appreciate that many lifestyle choices will be taken away from people who are not vaccinated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 07:28AM by helen.

Very interesting to read this thread. I will be 79 next month so personally I am not looking at potential complications in the future. However, living in Wanaka and 3 1/2 hours away from Dunedin hospital I got myself double vaccinated as the risk of getting COVID from travellers is a real possibility. My circle of friends is small and might even shrink more. Being a quite self contained person that doesn’t worry me at all. I am afraid the restaurants and cafes won’t be doing well out of me in the future. I am just thankful that I have been fortunate to have been able to live my life the way I have. I am counting my blessings. By the way, I do listen to the COVID updates but otherwise don’t engage.

Feeling very deflated, this thread is most definitely not living up to it's name.

What I will say, is that if you are reliant on a rural hospital, talk to the nurses, we are scared senseless, because we know how close our health system is to falling over completely. You can have as many ICU beds/Ventilator beds as you want, they're useless if they don't have staff to manage them... and we don't have staff, and we can't get staff because nurses are in hugely short supply world wide, DHB managers simply cannot magic nurses out of their backsides. During the winter we saw an outbreak of RSV, we coped, just, with huge disruptions... Covid in the general population, we simply won't cope.
I could refute Jenna's reasons for not having the vax, point by point very easily, but I'm done. I just don't care any more,

Hey Griz, thank you for taking time to come on this thread. Everything you wrote is right in every sense. Please take care and stay safe.
And to Helen who wrote about your friend, thank you - it resonated with me.
Annie