I read something that made me stop and think.
We are all made well aware about the land use and pollution levels of animal farming and many are using this as a basis for encouraging a plant based diet.
Aside from any human health benefit.

What about the land use and subsequent chemicals used in grape growing, chocolate production, coffee and sugar cane farms?
None of these provide nutrition for humans, all take their toll on our planet and yet are not talked about.

I have been mulling over this after reading it somewhere on facebook.
I hadn't thought of it before.

This is such a big gnarly topic I find it harder and harder to have a clear opinion. I do firmly believe that humans are healthiest when omnivorous. I think those factions encouraging a vegan diet are coming from various angles, and zealotry weakens their various positions.

I live in the heart of intensive dairying country and our nearest neighbour owns a huge intensive dairy farm. I am therefore regularly exposed to conversations about fertilisers, increased yields, supplementary feeding (PKE !), and the callous jargon of farming e.g. a cow which hasn't conceived is called "empty". I just shut up.

I sympathise with the animal cruelty angle, but it doesn't totally hold water; the harvesting of crops kills millions of small field-dwelling animals and insects either by habitat loss or by mincing them in the harvesting machinery. Also, if we didn't raise cattle, sheep, goats, poultry, pigs etc for food and pelts they would have to be eradicated and would become extinct.

And as you say, the fertilisers, pesticides and herbicides used in agriculture poison our water.

NZ is a good example of a country which has land unsuitable for crops but ideal for lambs and goats.

This is such a huge topic, opinions change all the time, I'm interested to hear others' views.

Tpandav I agree with the omnivore diet although I only eat a little meat.
I am concerned in NZ where water is pumped into areas to create an environment suited to dairy farming that is naturally ideal for sheep or even the growing of oats (I think we should be growing more oats, we easily can and there is demand).
I can't see this being sustainable and perhaps it won't last. Aside from China's insatiable demand for baby milk formula I do think that the global demand for dairy won't stay as buoyant as it has been.

The thing though that has made me really think is why do we insist on attacking that animal farms when no one is mentioning the grapes grown for wine, the chocolate or sugar production as surely these too are hard on our land and are not essential for feeding our planet....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2019 06:29AM by helen.

I agree. This where is have little patience for extremists of any variety. There is little in the world that is black and white, and shrieking your own personal black/white views from the rooftop only serves to close eyes and ears, whereas reasoned and collaborative discussion can achieve truely meaningful change.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2019 07:17AM by Jenna.

And thinking more on this, aren't almonds - seemingly an important item of the non-meat crowd - one of the most water intensive foods to grow? I'm vaguely remembering something about California and its terrible water crisis, and an outcry about how much water is being pumped to the almond farms.....

Also.... no-one talks about the countless plane trips - sports teams jetting off half way round the world for one match, shopping weekends in Australia, endless streams of people to the islands and so on.

What is that pumping into our atmosphere?

Jenna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And thinking more on this, aren't almonds -
> seemingly an important item of the non-meat crowd
> - one of the most water intensive foods to grow?
> I'm vaguely remembering something about California
> and its terrible water crisis, and an outcry about
> how much water is being pumped to the almond
> farms...

.Yes, almonds are extremely demanding of water, up there with cotton I believe.

Yes, we're all part of the problem, and it doesn't help one iota for people to bang on and criticise others about their choices. Ideally we should all be trying to make improvements that fit within our world view and that work for us, not being told what one chooses is not good enough and that we should be doing XYZ instead. That's the kind of attitude that makes people give up altogether.

Air travel seems to be the disconnect that nobody wants to acknowledge. I know so many people who pay lip service to sustainability yet think nothing of flying half way across the world for a holiday, and, even worse, go on cruise ship holidays. I find that level of hypocrisy hard to handle.

I have a dear friend in London who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer, a few months to live. I am wrestling very hard with whether nor not to fly over to see him.

The side of the debate that clearing land to grow crops presents a new set of issues is not new, just not easy to find. The only things that are heavily pushed by the media are the ones where they convince us to change. Personally I am skeptical on the whole emissions issue.

TPANDAV -- I am sorry to hear about your friend, that must be devastating news. To most, I imagine this would be a time where air travel is entirely appropriate. Jetting off to Mustique for a winter break, stopping in New York and Dubai to go shopping along the way... that's a bit different.

I think the issue of personal air and sea travel also needs to be considered in the context of how New Zealand will fare in the future with its intensive farming practices and the vast distances from trading partners. I wonder how we would get by if we were unable to import and export on container ships and by air.

This has now made me think so much more.
I get rid of all non meat food scraps within our own property, grow plants for bees etc.. and try to be environmentally caring but I do travel...
Hmm

Then you should travel. You cant do everything, and no one can be expected to.

Yes we can all contribute in small ways but we still need to enjoy the one life we get.There are amazingly clever young people who will invent new ways of waste disposal, who will invent ways to clean up the environment and who will pave the way for their next generation.

Some interesting links here

[sciblogs.co.nz]

Thank you jj, an interesting read.